Toolz

So just got up this morning to an email from Omaha steaks that a *gasp* THANK YOU package was on the way.

Of the 500K+ spent over the years with AVN you think I've EVER received so much as a card? Several of the ideas they charged people for at the end where ideas we created/gave them to facilitate networking, again no card, no thanks, no rev share. Year after year we spent more $$ with them, we got shit on with booth location. I'm SO happy not to flush more money down the toliet with these jokers and will gladly support anything you guys want to put together.

More good business was conducted, I didn't get anyone begging for traffic or trying to sell me some shit I had never heard of, it was a refreshing change.

In summary: JBM = Class Act, CARES about furthering your business

AVN = How much is in it for me

Take that into consideration when choosing to support their upcoming "circus" in January.

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S.S.

Service is everything. This show was great. The five of us will not be supporting AVN in January.

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Toolz

Beyond just that Sheri, did you feel you made signficant biz progress at the show? Was great chatting with you at dinner for awhile btw

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S.S.

Absolutely. It was also nice being able to bring the girls out without idiot webmasters groping them all the time. The guys talked to them like human beings, asked them about their sites, etc. It's a shame the other shows weren't the same way.

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Shok

damn I forgot to grope on this trip

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Peaches

No, you didn't...........

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masterp74

$500,000 is a lot. I would have send you steaks

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Shok

the stink fist was much appreciated

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HoneLynn

My ass and I would have to disagree with that statement.

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I just contacted AVN (no response so far) to enquire about spending some advertising $ with them for a client.

Maybe I should be looking at JBM.

.

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Toolz

I have several black holes I'd be willing to flush those dollars down for you. AVN represents themselves first and foremost, secondly the video industry, they get involved in online when they think they can make a buck off of it.

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cory_h

I hate it when people try to sell things I have never heard of to me. They trap you for hours.

Peaches

Cory: Oh, no, I've never heard of the fleshlight. Really

Suuuure........

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WiredGuy

I wonder if anyone from AVN even reads the boards anymore. The number of people expressing their frustrations with them grows everyday and they continue to neglect their needs. All the more to the competition.
WG

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Peaches

I think Aly was their "internet contact". Lord knows she had the hell beat out of her daily. I honestly just don't think they care about the internet side. If they make money off us, fine, but they aren't going out of their way to make us happy.

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cory_h

I think the industry is moving towards smaller shows, nothing more, nothing less.

We don't advertise in the publication as we feel it does not work for us. We don't exhibit for the same reasons. But I do enjoy some of the people that work at the company and I do have a room booked for January. They still have a large market share and if they change certain aspects of the company, we would once again, examine the possibility of advertising (this goes for any company).

I just wrote up a nice article for The JBM Show that should be out in the December issue of AVN. (Part of the reason for some of the photography as well).

I like to keep things simple, they are large, therefore they will be despised (for both warranted and unwarranted rational). I see the same thing already starting to happen with XBIZ (I enjoy them as well). If The JBM Show got large, I doubt cards would be mailed out. However, they have likely learned that containing / streamlining growth may well be the key to a successful future.

The JBM Show was very productive for us, I would love to support an encore show.

WEG GABE

Well said Toolz.

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cory_h

Charles,

In my opinion, that point was emblazened with Aly's departure. If they cared about the publicity, they would have kept her (given her more PR tools). I also have to believe that they are not in the business of losing money. That said, the strategic layers may not be clear, but the philosophy is.

I don't run their business, however, the business of using negative PR against AVN to start a business is becoming a saturated platform in itself.

The JBM Show didn't use any anti-AVN Show propaganda to promote itself, that was refreshing. I want to go to a show because it makes sense, not because I am in the business of protesting something.

happypeekers

We will not be attending either.. not because of our like or dislike for AVN.. but because I hate Vegas... lots of reasons for horny men to go there.. but not for us female webmasters ... but then again.. does anyone ever think of the females in this line of work.. hell no.

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S.S.

I had a guy try to follow me back to my hotel room Thursday night...I can't imagine having to need security for our girls at the January show. I'd rather spend the $$ on a good trip somewhere tropical to get some great shoots.

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cory_h

Before I had a girlfriend I thought of you all!

happypeekers

I REMEMBER

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happypeekers

That sux girl.. You need to get the girls and yourself some mace.. I have maced someone before and I can tell you for a fact.. It will put a big man down to the ground

Something Tropical sounds awesome.. A fronzen drink by the ocean...
I am a very romantic person.. I like to fuck on the beach

We will be attending the one in Cancun .. I think in March(?? ) for sure..

I need the list of the different shows.
Do you know where one is?

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WiredGuy

That's what I was wondering about, since Aly and Farley are gone, who is left from AVN who actually monitors the boards. Although AVN still has a great market presence, alienating their customers will surely lead to shrinking attendence over time.
WG

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cory_h

One thing is for sure, all companies read boards. Responding / reacting to them is a separate issue.

I agree with you about alienating, which leads to my theory that it may well not be their game anymore.

You are going in January?

confucy

From all the pictures that are being posted, it appears that your (GF) attends the events with you. Doesn't she get bored with the same old porn bullshit?

I don't see webmaster wives or GF's at porn events. They may be there, but I have never seen Lensman's wife at an event with him, or FM's wife, and Shaw Cutie doesn't go very often. I think Lightspeed's wife was at a couple events.

Cory, I thought you were too much of a *playboy* to let your (GF) tag along with you.

One good thing about the larger venues is that you are more apt to meet new people. Don't you get tired of seeing the same ole people at the smaller events? There are little cliques that are formed, and when you see the pictures, you see these same people at the same tables with their buddies instead of spreading out and meeting new webmasters. Reminds me of college fraternities.

Brad_JBM

Where the fuck are my steaks?

AVN has lost touch, someone will step up and make easy $ doing a big show or two a year. IMHO, Lensman is in the best position to do so, if he even cares to bother with it. AVN made a FORTUNE on the Hollywood show, do not kid yourself. Idiot companies paid $$$$$$$$ to have their names on toilet paper, in the pool, etc etc, lining AVN's pockets.

Our plans for the JBM Show are to do about the same thing next year about this time. With a small gathering/retreat in Cabo in the Spring.

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happypeekers

What I liked about the JBM show so much more than the bigger shows is that we were all able to go out and all have dinner and small parties in high class places ... instead of being elbow to asshole with kids... :-)

Smaller shows are the future :-)

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S.S.

For next year's JBM show, I'd like to sponsor the Levitra.

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Toolz

I don't think this is necessarily true, the best sales people will go out and meet everyone anyways, those that don't like to talk to other's won't, it's not so much cliques as it is comfort factor, most of us only see each other 2-3 times a year, it's nice to hang out with people you like, do biz with, and aren't idiots when drunk.

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[illnet]-Jamie

I couldnt agree with you more man ...well said

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Toolz

Thanks again for the poker night, another classy event, well cept for that one part but I know you didn't have anything to do with that

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Deeprub

lol you must have some glasses thick as coke bottles......

We meet allot of really good people at this show. Its always good to see old friends but I dont think anyone that was there for the first time.....felt like and outcast.....and there was allot of couples at the show.

You need to get out and smell the roses

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cory_h

I agree with Toolz, good sale's people (or even personable people) will meet others in any situation.

I am always baffled at the "cliques" statements, how do you think sales work?

wyldblyss

I think you are failing to understand the concept of friendship. Let me explain. People that like each other actually ENJOY being around one another. Seeing each other 2 or 3 times a year for a couple days is NOT often enough to get sick of each other. Now take Nick, it was his very first webmaster show, very first time meeting anyone in the industry. Do the pictures show nick sulking all alone in the corner because the cliques will not let him in? Nah, he is schmoozing with everyone there and having a blast.

It was also Extreme Alex's first time at a show too, and it looks like she also had a blast.

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S.S.

It was Alex's first webmaster show and she said she'd do it again in a heartbeat. Everyone made her feel very welcome.

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cory_h

Back in my single days I would have made her feel welcome as well.

Bex

She's an outgoing girl with great phone manners ... how could she not fit in?


Bex

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Peaches

I remember when I shunned shows because I figured the old fat chick wouldn't be well received. One night I got a wild hair up my ass and booked a flight the next morning for the Miami 99 show. I STILL wasn't sure what to expect so I booked a flight back home for later that night I had a BLAST, was pissed I was leaving that day and have tried to attend most of the shows since!

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MFM

I think AVN probably has been seeing declining revenue from the internet side anyway and really does care what this market thinks of them.

If you are fishing for webmasters at avn, you are probably new looking to waste money.

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Toolz

Will you got to the January show for us all, I'm looking to make some more outta biz in 6 months predictions, I'm rarely wrong.

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confucy

Okay, peeps, those of you who are speaking out are outgoing friendly people.

And most of you drink to take off the edge, if you happen to be a little shy. Nick is the exception. He is in every picture and looks like a party animal, just like on the boards.

Many webmasters have told me that they do not feel comfortable at the shows. Many do not post on the boards. Many don't feel it is worth their time to go to the events and do business with those who are there to party and socialize.

And it gets old hearing many of you gush over those who have a little money, big houses, and handsome dogs. On GFY, Amp is getting his ass kicked for posting pictures of his cars, trucks, art, house, stereo speakers, and all his toys. Porn People are known for bragging and pretending like they have what they do not own. And even if they do own what they say they do, who the hell gives a damn!

Wyld One, please..................stop with the big sister advice. Nick is a clown. The only attention he could get was to bow down to the *big guys* and hog the camera. He was gaga over being in Las Vegas with those who have made a few dollars in porn. If I want advice concerning friendships, I would turn to a friend, not to someone like you who hates my guts.

Why do you think everyone is proclaiming that *small shows* are the future? Because porn people are no longer making the money they made in the 90's. They are actually having to work a few hours to make a living. I liked the big booths...the big shows...the extravaganzas of the past. I don't like hot sticky weather like you find in Jamaica, Cancun, and Florida, and I am tired of Las Vegas. I liked the old Las Vegas with great performers at the hotels, and moderate prices.

Although I am not a fan of AVN, I do like some of the shows they are behind.

Come on, Toolz!! Cliques exist, have existed, and will continue to exist in porn...out of porn, and in heaven and hell. If you feel the need to be a part of one, then you just go out there and become KING CLIQUE. You could say that many of the *cliques* are formed on the boards. How many Oprano people, YNOT people, or Netpond people came to the JBM event? They have their own little groups. Remember the competition when Serge decided to have a get together in Las Vegas with his clique of friends at the very same time as The Players Ball?

cory_h

Hahaha....

Toolz, change your username to: KING CLIQUE

SykkBoy

Nice
Cory's off the market at the same time I'm back on....this works out very well for me ;-))

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WiredGuy

Yup, I'll be there.
WG

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quinn

I agree 100% Bex!

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S.S.

I raise 'em well, boys.

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J$TYLE$

The JBM Show, CCBill's Phoenix Forum, and Webmaster Access all have similar attributes that make them condusive to relaxing, enjoying yourself/having fun and most importantly getting biz done.

The thing I most enjoyed about the JBM Show was that even though some events overlapped - everyone that attended could have participated if they chose to ... and the events were organized to such a degree that I had a chance to sit down and talk to almost everyone I wanted to and got a bunch of biz done.

AVN Vegas specifically is an entirely differnt animal, however - no matter how big or whatever the pain in the ass ... I still believe it is the ONE must attend show every year. Obviously, I'm speaking for myself BUT historically I get a TON of biz done there and meet more new contacts there than any other show.

IMHO smaller shows are the wave of the present and future but I'll always support MYSELF bringing in MORE/NEW biz - and that means going to AVN shows.

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Sly

No, you're wrong.

I am very shy and very easily feel out of place in general. At shows I don't. Everyone is very friendly and very open. There are definitely "cliques", but really all they are is circles of friends. I always hang out with my friends, but our circle is open and anyone new is more than welcome to sit down and shoot the shit.

When I went to Cancun last year I was totally lost. I didn't know what to think. I didn't know anybody, had no friends there, I felt like a little kid that lost his mommy. It started out slow but I ended up spending some time with Brett and Sammy from Sammy4U, Mitch and his wife from Netbilling, and Dan from CamZ. I had no idea who these people were and they had no idea who I was, yet we had a great time.

Stop talking out of your ass and ruining it for new people.

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Peaches

Do we even know what AVN's planning for the internet show this January? Honestly, the FL one, despite the horrid weather which makes my skin glow profusely, is IMO better than Vegas business wise due to our possession of the entire hotel.

FL had a good turnout despite the constant cries of "I'm not going and neither is any of my staff" from quite a large number of people (many which either went or sent their staff....) so it will be interesting to see how Jan turns out.

Personally I'd love to go on the last day, see folks I want to see, run at take a look at CES and spend 3 or so more day in Vegas playing w/o the show being around And I know some people who are actually doing that.....

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